RT @slmandel: Question: Has Conference USA begun talks yet with Iowa State, Baylor and K-State? (Not buying that Kansas will be left in cold.)
RT @slmandel: Question: Has Conference USA begun talks yet with Iowa State, Baylor and K-State? (Not buying that Kansas will be left in cold.)
C-USA? Oh, dear God, no. Aside from the sheer humiliation – and admit it, going from power conference to C-USA would be just that – there isn’t a school there north of about US 60. It’s just not a geographic fit.
As I said before, any chance of Iowa State losing BCS-conference status will/should make the Legislature do something. But in somewhat of a rebuttal/asterisk to Mandel’s column, Iowa’s current governor went to high school in Maryland and graduated from Virginia Tech, and has NO ingrained interest in Iowa’s universities. (Then again, he doesn’t seem keen on being re-elected anyway.)
OK, slight addendum: I should’ve used the Ohio River instead of US 60 as my geographic line. Marshall is as far north as the conference gets, but after that it’s Memphis and Tulsa.
You know, just to think outside the box here for a second… the Mountain West’s big problem, in terms of attaining BCS AQ status, is that it’s too top-heavy — after TCU/BYU/Utah and to some extent Air Force, it’s pretty terrible. Now, some of those bottom teams, you obviously want to keep around for TV market reasons: UNLV, San Diego State, possibly New Mexico. You can probably dump CSU (since Air Force is still there) and certainly Wyoming. Do that & add Boise, and you’ve got an okay 8-team conference. But, now, if you add Baylor, Kansas, K-State and Iowa State… now that’s a 12-team conference that would most definitely qualify for BCS status.
Granted, there’s nothing “Mountain West” about Lawrence, Kansas or Ames, Iowa. (Then again: San Diego State?!?) So they might need to re-name the conference. But hey — I hear the name “Big 12” is available! And yeah, geographically, it’s a little weird. But, it’s a bit better when you think in terms of divisions:
BIG 12 EAST
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Baylor
TCU
Air Force
BIG 12 WEST
Boise State
BYU
Utah
New Mexico
UNLV
San Diego State
It’d take some getting used to, sure. But it could work. It avoids the “humiliation” of moving down to a non-BCS conference. It’s still somewhat geographically coherent, and I actually think the divisional competitive balance is pretty good, in football at least. And the name would be familiar!
Or, hell, if you want, add Fresno State and Nevada (best non-Boise teams in the WAC) to the West Division, and move New Mexico to the East Division, and you’ve got two 7-team divisions, so each team only needs to play two intradivisional games per season (assuming 8 conference games total) — one at home, one on the road — so, that’d cut down on distant travel, like Ames to San Diego or whatever.
BIG 14 EAST
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Baylor
TCU
Air Force
New Mexico
BIG 14 WEST
Boise State
BYU
Utah
UNLV
Nevada
San Diego State
Fresno State
Of course, this would leave the WAC up shit creek without a paddle. They lose Boise, Fresno and Nevada, and inherit Wyoming and Colorado State. Congrats, guys! LOL.
But seriously, I think this is the Big 12 needs to be thinking along these lines. If they lose all their marquee teams (aside from Kansas in basketball), their best bet is to absorb the best of the Mountain West, sort of like what the Big East did with the best of C-USA etc., including its marquee teams, and try to build it up into a fully respectable BCS conference over time. Granted, when you’re losing 67% of your membership, all seems lost, but with all the success the MWC + Boise have had in recent years, it’s actually not THAT bad of an option.
I see merit in your ideas, although throwing in SDSU and Fresno really expands the geographic footprint. Iowa State has done home-and-homes with UNLV and has one set up with Utah, so it’s not unheard of to go that far for nonconference.
But after I wrote this, and read something else, here’s a thought that doesn’t seem to have been anywhere: What if the Big Ten wanted to go after Kansas and K-State instead? Sure, the Big Ten wants the TV sets on the East Coast, but that’s going to be negated by the fact no one in New Jersey watches Rutgers anyway.
Football is what’s driving this, but isn’t Kansas basketball worth something here too? Imagine regular-season games against Michigan State and Illinois. Your reconstituted Big 12 and Big 14 scenarios make Kansas…well, actually I guess Kansas more or less becomes Memphis.
A Big 16 that takes Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, K-State, and Notre Dame might not be that bad of an option for a conference. (I think the Pac-10 going after half the Big 12 would force ND’s hand.) Plus, the Missouri-Kansas Border War stays a conference FB game.
And yes, I am quite aware that still leaves Iowa State and Baylor standing on the Titanic’s deck as the last lifeboats are lowered.
Granted, there’s nothing “Mountain West” about Lawrence, Kansas or Ames, Iowa. (Then again: San Diego State?!?) So they might need to re-name the conference.
Um, no shit, Sherlock. That’s why I speculated about it being named the Mountain and Prairie Conference.
If the Pac10 and Big Ten doend up pillaging the big 12, I think a reborn Big 12 like you speculate is exactly what happens, with the WAC absorbing the remainders. It also might mean Louisianna Tech finally joins a conference that makes sense…
The problem with Kansas and Kansas State (and actually with Missouri and Nebraska) for the Big Ten is academics.
Using the US News rankings as a rough metric the Big Ten averages a rank of 50, second only to the ACC’s 49. The lowest in the Big Ten (Iowa,Indiana, and Mi State) are only 71. That’s out of about 270 ranked National Universities.
Compare the rankings of the four Big 12 schools to Notre Dame and the four most likely Big East poach candidates, Rutgers, Pitt, Syracuse and UConn:
Notre Dame: 20
Pitt: 56
Syracuse: 58
Rutgers: 66
Uconn: 66
Kansas: 96
Nebraska: 96
Missouri: 102
Kansas State: Tier 3 (136-201)
Nebraska and Missouri might be palatable because of athletics, but I don’t see how Kansas State can justify it, even if you include Kansas.
Incidentally what I see as forcing Notre Dames hand is only indirectly the break up of the big 12. The direct cause would be the break up of the Big East if the Big Ten takes a few schools and then the ACC and maybe SEC (South Florida) sweep up the rest of the Div 1A Big East schools. Now Notre Dame doesn’t have the Big East for basketball et al. The possibility of that happening could force it to finally join the Big Ten.
The lynch pin in pretty much all of this is Texas.
The upshot of all this? 4-5 BCS conferences (Pac-16, Big Sixteen, ACC, SEC, and maybe reborn Big 12) the disappearance of the Mountain West and the Big East is no longer a D1 football conference.
For more context, just to emphasize the complete lack of power Iowa State has in the situation, the president and AD have issued a statement that says EXACTLY that. (Forgive me if these links get forced breaks in them.)
http://www.cyclones.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=204955238&DB_OEM_ID=10700
Has any other university issued anything similar?
And now, to add insult to helplessness, let me quote from a Hawkeye forum – biased, of course, but from experience these thoughts are not unheard of in the fanbase:
“As always, BHGP continues to fervently hope for the MACrification of Iowa State.”
http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2010/6/4/1502150/dan-beebe-is-in-denial-something
“KU would be left with Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas State. You think KU feels any need to stick by those three schools? You know, the three that were so unmarketable that it plunged the Big XII into a ruinous financial inferiority? Any need at all?”
http://www.blackheartgoldpants.com/2010/6/3/1500324/the-big-xii-is-crumbling-as-we